Fw: clean it up

[richard l. kandell]

Hey Jon - are Mike and I part of the soap box rant?  ;-)

 Richard K.

 By the way - this is hardly the first time we've had this type of
situation on the forum, but it seems we have had a great deal more of it
recently then we did in the past.  One of the basic rules has ALWAYS been NO
Personal Attacks.  Really guys and gals, if you are having trouble abiding
by that, or don't want to, as Jon said, there are any number of other venues
for you to participate in with that approach.

> ----- Original Message -----=20
>   From: jon breiner=20
>   To: address@hidden
>   Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 1:09 PM
>   Subject: Re: [UC Basketball] Kenyon
>
>
>   ok, I have to chime in on a few things from both "sides".
>
>   1st of all, for those getting personal, please give it a rest.  We've =
> had multiple warnings and I am going to call for the admin's to =
> LIBERALLY give 1 week suspensions or something to settle all the crap =
> down.  We can agreeably disagree and if you can't get the heck out of =
> here.  I don't care how long you have been here.  Remember, this is not =
> a public forum.  We are not the government.  Freedom of speech does NOT =
> exist here and the admin' and long timers have been clear on the type of =
> forum we want.  Note, I am not calling any one person out, and I =
> appreciate those that have apologized when they misspoke or some things =
> were misconstrued, but their is too much obviously vicious crap that has =
> no place here.  Please use one of the 50 message boards that allow it.
>
>   Anyway, I agree with the basic point that Jared stated originally, but =
> not with alot of his supporting points.  Note that that also means we =
> agree with Bob Huggins who told Kenyon to leave it all alone.  Kenyon =
> did steal a bit of the thunder from Huggins night, but I don't think =
> there was malicious intent.  As a matter of a fact, I bet it was more of =
> a spur of the moment caught up in the emotion thing.  Yes, he might have =
> been acting out, but it was not as a spoiled brat so much as a wounded =
> child.
>
>   But Jared, you have twice taken one data point and are extrapolating =
> it out to equate to whole statistics backing up your point.  You said =
> below: "I just know that a night to honor Huggs turned out that his all =
> time best player had an immature tantrum and Huggs had to still baby =
> him.  Maybe that showed the truth of the program."
>
>   C'mon.  Do I have to say anything else?  Let's not even argue, but =
> consider the first sentence to be 100% accurate.  How does that even =
> partly relate to your conclusion (the 2nd sentence)?   I know you have =
> been hit hard personally (and rudely), but that sounds like a not =
> well-thought out snap-back.
>
>   You also said (paraphrasing) that since your kid thought he was a =
> bust, all young kids think he was a bust.  Correction, your young kid =
> sees Kenyon as a bust.  Kenyon had the 19th best selling shirt in the =
> NBA in 2004 .  While obviously not the top player in the eyes of the =
> kids, and far from being the near the top in the eyes of your kid, he is =
> far from being a bust in the eyes of many more.  That's a lot of shirts! =
>   Of course, that does not discount the perception that obviously there =
> are some (at least one!) who consider him a bust, I just think they are =
> in the minority.  It can't be only UC fans who have bought Kenyon's =
> jersey enough times to make it be #19!  Sure Martin is NOT Duncan or =
> Shaq, but he represents himself VERY WELL if you look at former #1 =
> picks.  Since 1980-2005 here are the #1 picks.
>
>   Joe Barry Carroll, Mark Aguirre, James Worthy, Ralph Sampson, Akeem =
> Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, Brad Daugherty, David Robinson, Danny Manning, =
> Pervis Ellison, Derrick Coleman, Larry Johnson, Shaq, Chris Webber, =
> Glenn Robinson, Joe Smith, Allen Iverson, Tim Duncan, Michael =
> Olowokandi, Elton Brand, Kenyon Martin, Kwame Brown, Yao Ming, LeBron =
> James, Dwight Howard, Andrew Bogut.
>
>
>   I'd say he is/was better than 15 on that list and I could make an =
> argument against Glenn Robinson (who I rated higher than Kenyon).  Even =
> if all of us rate a player or two slightly differently, it shows he's =
> slightly above average among #1 picks.
>
>   I also take a bit of issue with the inference in the statement "and =
> quite frankly Kmart while above average, wasn't the star of the team."  =
> The main issue I first had was the tone (which maybe was not intended, =
> but appears to run throughout your past few emails).  I am not sure what =
> your point is, he was not the star, but he WAS the core.  That was not =
> only apparent then, but virtually proven via the performance of the =
> stars after he left.  Look how Denver played at the end of last year.  =
> Many said they were the best NBA team near the end of the season (I =
> disagree-d), but there is a reason why they are different.  He does have =
> the intangible things that cannot be well-measured.  He is one of the =
> best defensive players in the NBA (2nd best on the list of #1 picks =
> IMHO).
>
>   Also he has been an All-star and played on international teams.  So =
> all of these view points which represent more data and people than just =
> your child think Kenyon is far from being a bust.  :)
>
>   But I still think Kenyon would have been better off showing his love =
> for Bob differently.  So anyone who is keeping a list among the =
> participants (NZ, Cox, Oscar, Kenyon, etc.) of the "I am going to go =
> crazy and say something way too emotional or stupid over this Bob =
> Huggins issue"  it is now 3-1.   :)
>
>   For Mike and Richard, Goin is smart enough to know that anything he =
> says (however smart it might first appear), can only result in getting =
> added to the scorecard!
>
>   Ok, done and off my soapbox.
>
>   Jon