Re: Kenyon

[jon breiner]

ok, I have to chime in on a few things from both "sides".

1st of all, for those getting personal, please give it a rest.  We've had multiple warnings and I am going to call for the admin's to LIBERALLY give 1 week suspensions or something to settle all the crap down.  We can agreeably disagree and if you can't get the heck out of here.  I don't care how long you have been here.  Remember, this is not a public forum.  We are not the government.  Freedom of speech does NOT exist here and the admin' and long timers have been clear on the type of forum we want.  Note, I am not calling any one person out, and I appreciate those that have apologized when they misspoke or some things were misconstrued, but their is too much obviously vicious crap that has no place here.  Please use one of the 50 message boards that allow it.

Anyway, I agree with the basic point that Jared stated originally, but not with alot of his supporting points.  Note that that also means we agree with Bob Huggins who told Kenyon to leave it all alone.  Kenyon did steal a bit of the thunder from Huggins night, but I don't think there was malicious intent.  As a matter of a fact, I bet it was more of a spur of the moment caught up in the emotion thing.  Yes, he might have been acting out, but it was not as a spoiled brat so much as a wounded child.

But Jared, you have twice taken one data point and are extrapolating it out to equate to whole statistics backing up your point.  You said below: "I just know that a night to honor Huggs turned out that his all time best player had an immature tantrum and Huggs had to still baby him.  Maybe that showed the truth of the program."

C'mon.  Do I have to say anything else?  Let's not even argue, but consider the first sentence to be 100% accurate.  How does that even partly relate to your conclusion (the 2nd sentence)?   I know you have been hit hard personally (and rudely), but that sounds like a not well-thought out snap-back.

You also said (paraphrasing) that since your kid thought he was a bust, all young kids think he was a bust.  Correction, your young kid sees Kenyon as a bust.  Kenyon had the 19th best selling shirt in the NBA in 2004 .  While obviously not the top player in the eyes of the kids, and far from being the near the top in the eyes of your kid, he is far from being a bust in the eyes of many more.  That's a lot of shirts!   Of course, that does not discount the perception that obviously there are some (at least one!) who consider him a bust, I just think they are in the minority.  It can't be only UC fans who have bought Kenyon's jersey enough times to make it be #19!  Sure Martin is NOT Duncan or Shaq, but he represents himself VERY WELL if you look at former #1 picks.  Since 1980-2005 here are the #1 picks.

Joe Barry Carroll, Mark Aguirre, James Worthy, Ralph Sampson, Akeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, Brad Daugherty, David Robinson, Danny Manning, Pervis Ellison, Derrick Coleman, Larry Johnson, Shaq, Chris Webber, Glenn Robinson, Joe Smith, Allen Iverson, Tim Duncan, Michael Olowokandi, Elton Brand, Kenyon Martin, Kwame Brown, Yao Ming, LeBron James, Dwight Howard, Andrew Bogut.


I'd say he is/was better than 15 on that list and I could make an argument against Glenn Robinson (who I rated higher than Kenyon).  Even if all of us rate a player or two slightly differently, it shows he's slightly above average among #1 picks.

I also take a bit of issue with the inference in the statement "and quite frankly Kmart while above average, wasn't the star of the team."  The main issue I first had was the tone (which maybe was not intended, but appears to run throughout your past few emails).  I am not sure what your point is, he was not the star, but he WAS the core.  That was not only apparent then, but virtually proven via the performance of the stars after he left.  Look how Denver played at the end of last year.  Many said they were the best NBA team near the end of the season (I disagree-d), but there is a reason why they are different.  He does have the intangible things that cannot be well-measured.  He is one of the best defensive players in the NBA (2nd best on the list of #1 picks IMHO).

Also he has been an All-star and played on international teams.  So all of these view points which represent more data and people than just your child think Kenyon is far from being a bust.  :)

But I still think Kenyon would have been better off showing his love for Bob differently.  So anyone who is keeping a list among the participants (NZ, Cox, Oscar, Kenyon, etc.) of the "I am going to go crazy and say something way too emotional or stupid over this Bob Huggins issue"  it is now 3-1.   :)

For Mike and Richard, Goin is smart enough to know that anything he says (however smart it might first appear), can only result in getting added to the scorecard!

Ok, done and off my soapbox.

Jon


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jared Garth 
  To: address@hidden 
  Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 12:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [UC Basketball] Kenyon


  Calling a child an idiot speaks well of you Linda. What they do know is that they have been training at Hoops america for 4 years. The current 9th grader has played agaisnt luol deng, Jay williams, muhammed on UC's team and many more d 1 players. We receive a couple of people from 2 different big east schools( I can't say anything else except not UC).Since we live in jersey, we get to see the Nets quite often and quite frankly Kmart while above average, wasn't the star of the team. My kid is well coached in BB way beyond most high schoolers. Enough said except he plays for the NJ Demons was a Pocono Invitational all star playing up in age , but I don't want to brag too much on him.You know little, if anything about him, me or anybody else in my immediate family and I will never telll the likes of you anything.



  Linda what I was saying is all UC's team are wonderful in the perspective of those who see them and remember them. martin and huggs will soon be as forgotten as jelly Jones, Roger Mc, Puffy Kennedy,Geprge wilson, lloyd b, wilson , twyman etc. are. Few people remember who beat out larry bird for mr. Indiana except us hard cores.



  The thing about the charities is that it really shows more than a tax deduction. I think some current UC stars are so in to themselves that Huggs was gone before they spoke or at least got an opportunity for publicity by speaking. Perhaps if the Hugg's grads had gone to a BOT meeting it may have made a difference. it is the off season. Perhaps they were planning to come to one.



  I just know that a night to honor Huggs turned out that his all time best player had an immature tantrum and Huggs had to still baby him. 

  Maybe that showed the truth of the program.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: "Linda Menard" <address@hidden>
    Reply-To: address@hidden
    To: <address@hidden>
    Subject: Re: [UC Basketball] Kenyon
    Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 23:17:42 -0400


    Jared,

    What in the world would you know about what Kenyon does or does not do in the way of charities?  Do you have any idea if he has or has not made his opinions know to the UC administration prior to Huggins firing?   Just exactly what is it you assume to know that Kenyon has or has not done that does not justify his actions?  Do you have some information that the rest of us are not privy to or are you making assumptions from absolutely no information at all?
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Jared Garth 
      To: address@hidden 
      Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:26 PM
      Subject: RE: [UC Basketball] Kenyon



      For those who said that the BOT would not have listened to Kenyon while his mentor was having problems, well I guess we will never know. the thing about the charities, although I believe he has some in the city, if he doesn't, he was just a carpet bagger user strictly in it for self. Did Kenyon ever come to Huggs golf outings for charity or to his camps? 



      I am not saying he didn't. I want him to have come. I want more memories of KMart than winning the DePaul game, grandstanding on Huggs' day, and breaking a leg.



      The greatest tribute for Huggs was Kmart's working to achieve what he did in school/on the court, becoming a well-rounded adult and then, in return, giving back to the community. I am sure he has foundations in Dallas as well as Denver, but UC gave him his chance as it did Huggins.


      Shawn we were talking about Kmart why did you drag in that herring?


------------------------------------------------------------------------
        From: "Shawn Hunter" <address@hidden>
        Reply-To: address@hidden
        To: <address@hidden>
        Subject: RE: [UC Basketball] Kenyon
        Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:48:18 -0400


        What, if anything, has he given back to the community in ways of charities.

        Weak argument.  What has Darth Z and the BoT given to the community?  Oh, I know - total embarrassment at the national level and an athletic program in ruins.

        Shawn