Re: Louisville a lock for Big East if...

[richard l. kandell]

One of the things that I am having difficulty with, assuming this whole
thing goes forward (there is some word that UVa has joined UNC and Duke in
opposition to expansion, at least temporarily, and, as a result, the ACC
vote is being delayed) is why the need in the BE to have 2 groupings of 8
schools each, one with football and the other without.  You don't need it
for basketball, and it has the potential for making the scheduling of
"non-revenue" sports a nightmare.  Why don't you have just 9 or 12
all-sports schools, and let the hoops only schools go their own way?  Is it
because Dave Gavitt has suggested that approach?  Is it because one of the
reasons the Big East was originally founded was because some of the eastern
catholic colleges, especially those in the big city areas, needed a
conference to try to keep local talent at home, so there is some need to
keep them happy - especially in Gavitt's view, as that is his background?

Richard K.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shinkle, Randy" <address@hidden>
To: <address@hidden>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 12:02 PM
Subject: RE: [UC Basketball] Louisville a lock for Big East if...


Brett,

My initial reaction is similar to yours, but after a bit of reflection, I'm
not quite so concerned.  See below for further comments.

Randy '78


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brett Pappas [mailto:address@hidden
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 9:47 AM
> To: address@hidden
> Subject: RE: [UC Basketball] Louisville a lock for Big East if...
>
>
> Can you imagine if the Big East took Louisville, Central Florida and
> East Carolina for the football side and then took Marquette and Xavier
> to fill out the basketball only side of their proposed 16 team
> conference?
>
> What would UC do then? The thought of Xavier being in the Big
> East while
> we are left in a pathetic conference of leftovers for football and
> basketball would be a nightmare.


Well, let's look at the C-USA that would be left:

    Army (football only)
    Charlotte (non-football)
    Cincinnati
    DePaul (non-football)
    Houston
    Memphis
    Saint Louis (non-football)
    South Florida
    Southern Miss
    TCU
    Tulane
    UAB

    Totals:  9 football, 11 basketball

You're right, that doesn't look so great for basketball, but the football
wouldn't be too bad.  Basketball would be helped a lot if Charlotte, DePaul,
Houston and UAB could get back to being regular NCAA candidates.  Also, look
at what could happen if the conference were to add, say, Temple:

New C-USA North:

    Charlotte
    Cincinnati
    DePaul
    Memphis
    Saint Louis
    Temple

New C-USA South:

    Houston
    South Florida
    Southern Miss
    TCU
    Tulane
    UAB

No, it's not as intriguing as the expanded Big East, but it's tolerable.
When you consider the real possibility that the Big East would subsequently
split (a la the WAC) and the football side would want to get to 12, then UC
is right back in the mix and the above is only temporary.

And I couldn't possibly care less what conference Xavier is in.  They will
always be Xavier, and UC will always be UC.


> Before you say there is no way they take ECU and UCF ahead of us you
> need to realize that according to this story, it will be the
> 5 remaining
> football schools deciding which all sports teams to take. UCF
> would be a
> good choice if they want to keep a florida school that has promise in
> football and ECU would be a toss up when factoring in their proximity
> and success in football.


My suspicion is that the choice is really either (a) UC and ECU or (b) the 2
Florida schools.  If only 1 Florida school is taken, they become a real
loner, and look what has happened with Miami in that role.  If the Big East
really wants to preserve a Florida connection (for recruiting, access to
bowls, etc.), then they need to take both.  But, by doing so, they're
betting on "potential" in a big way, because up to now UC and ECU combined
are significantly better across the board in *every* sport, including
football.

If the choice is UC and ECU, there are sensible travel partners:
    Cincinnati / Louisville
    Connecticut / Rutgers
    East Carolina / Virginia Tech
    Pittsburgh / West Virginia
If it's UCF and USF, Louisville becomes paired with Virginia Tech, which is
a stretch.


> Who would VaTech want? If you are WVA or Pitt, is it a
> positive to have
> UC join (rivalry) or a negative (recruiting).


I really think the recruiting angle is overblown.  Lots of schools recruit
Florida without having a conference member there.  I believe access to the
bowls in Orlando and Tampa is the greater concern.  Outside of that, I can't
think of *any* reason why *all* the Big East schools wouldn't prefer UC.


> I am not saying that I believe we are on the outside looking
> in, in fact
> I would give us the edge. I just don't think we are a sure thing.
>
> --Brett
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wedinger, Keith [mailto:address@hidden
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:30 AM
> To: address@hidden; address@hidden
> Subject: [UC Basketball] Louisville a lock for Big East if...
>
> Check out:
> http://espn.go.com/ncaa/news/2003/0611/1566706.html
> <http://espn.go.com/ncaa/news/2003/0611/1566706.html>
>
> Hopefully, UC is also being seriously considered.  Stay tuned for
> further
> turmoil.
>
> J. Keith Wedinger
> Senior Software Developer
> Sterling Commerce