BearcatNews.com presents our next interview. . . .

LaZelle Durden
Steve Sanders
Alex Meacham

Hosted by Jon Breiner (JB), Denise Breiner (DB) and Mike Ryan (MR).

The following is an interview held at Christy’s in Clifton with LaZelle Durden, Steve Sanders and Alex Meacham.  We met for dinner and about two hours of conversation at Christy’s in Clifton before the Cincinnati at Louisville game.

PART TWO – The Shot.

“In 1989, Steve Sanders, sank a 3-pointer at the buzzer to lift UC to a 66-64 win over Minnesota in the inaugural game in the new Shoemaker Center.”  - UCBearcats.com

Alex: Steve, that shot put everything on the map right there, that was the start.

Steve: I think what it did, and I’ve told people this after it happened, what that shot did, what that game did, was give everyone confidence.   Another thing, I called into a sports radio show…and he asked me about it. . .   I’m going to tell you one thing about coach Huggins, we never approached the game thinking we couldn’t win, the whole time we prepared for Minnesota, he always told us how we could beat them, that we could beat them.  I remember him telling Levertis (Robinson), “Levertis, do you think there is another 4-man more athletic than you?”
MR: Boosted his confidence in that regard.
SS: Yea, he always did, we never went into any game thinking "they are going to kill us".  Even when we played Duke (95-83 loss in Hawaii in Dec 89) you know they hit us with a run that stunned us, but other than that little period, we thought we could win.  I really thought whoever we played we could beat.
MR: Is that still true today for the team ?

SS: Of course. Sometimes I would catch myself out on the court… I’m going to tell you Andre Tate and Lou Banks were awesome.  They were fabulous and they taught me so much and got me through so many tough times.  There would be times and I would be wondering: “what am I doing out here?  These guys are faster and quicker.  They are basketball players.  I’m just out here. . .”   . . .and Andre would say Steve, “You got to do this, do that.  Do it this way.”

We were about to play Memphis St. and Huggins told me, “Steve, you are going to have to match up with Elliot Perry sometimes.”  I said “C’mon man”..  When he told me I kind of laughed. (laughter around the table)   I said, “How am I supposed to stay with this guy?” and he said “use your body to push him, use your forearm and body.”   He taught me how to use my forearm.  Sometimes I am thinking I am watching this on my couch on TV, but I am really out here.  It was the best year, by far of my athletic life.  Not even close.  High School was wonderful, but . . .

MR: Where did you go to High School in Cleveland?
SS:  Shaw HS.  High school was lovely, you are the big man on campus.  Everybody’s going “Steve, Steve, Steve, ….   In college I couldn’t believe it.  I’m walking through a mall and a kid goes “there’s Steve !”  I’m thinking “there must be another Steve”. (laughter)   Seriously, I was tripping.  Then I heard this one little boy….we used to do camps during the season and a little boy came up to Andre Tate and said “my two favorite basketball players in the world are Alonzo Mourning and Andre Tate.”   I said “how did you get him to say that stuff ? !”    You just do not realize how people perceive what you do.

MR: Did you feel pressure, especially after the shot against Minnesota, that the team came into the spotlight locally because of the upset?
SS: It was really funny during the whole season.  The players and coaches knew they had to be a different.  I did not really get yelled at.  If I made a mistake he was like, “Steve you gotta do…”  . . .  and it got to be a joke.

MR: Were you a ‘teacher’s pet’ ?
SS: Naw, not a teacher’s pet  But he understood I had been away from the game for four years and he knew I was a bit rusty.  I may not have known how to rotate, or a little slow but he had to be that way.  Except for one time. 
We were on the Tulane, Southern Miss swing, and Coach Huggins told us all week that Southern Miss had this certain thing.  They would fake a guy into the paint and they would swing around to the three point line.  He said, “Steve don’t go for the fake because they are going to pop back out to the 3-point line”.  You know, Steve went for the fake (laughter).  The guy went out to 3 point line right into half time so… I got it at halftime.  I look at Andre and Lou and they are laughing. . . .
MR: They were happy you were getting yelled at, instead of them.
SS: That was really the only time all year.  He never really yelled at me and even news reporters would say, “Coach handles you differently”.  I would always smile and have a good attitude.  He knew I was just coming back so I got more leeway.
JB: Was Weatherspoon still playing for Southern Miss then?
SS: He was a beast.  Southern Miss was the only team we could never really beat.  They beat us three times.  Every game we would have them, we were always right there.

SS: You can’t take it personal; Coach Huggins is not for everyone.
LD: That’s for sure.
SS: You just have to listen to what he says, not how he says it and understand it is not personal.  He will yell at you in practice, but then after practice he’ll pull you aside to talk to you.  It is not personal.  When you look back it’s funny.  It’s not funny when he was yelling at you !
AM: Yea, you look back and think, “That was funny as hell!”

SS: This will tell you a little about what kind of person Bob Huggins is.  We had lost to Toledo, probably one of our worst games of the year.  He punched the chalkboard and broke it at halftime and punched the locker.  His hand was all bloody.  And on the way back on the bus he made us watch “The Best of Laurel and Hardy” or “The Three Stooges” and we had to sit there and couldn’t talk.  He even had that tape so it lets you know the kind of person he is.
DB: Was it a punishment?
SS: Yea it was a punishment.  He was mad at us and said, “I better not hear a word”.  And that was a five hour bus ride.

MR:  LaZelle, do you have any stories like that?
AM: Tell us about the three free throws first! (the famous Wyoming game, Dec. 17th, 1994)
LD: Man, it was a moment for me.  A childhood moment, a dream come true.  Just like when you were a kid, you guys probably did the same thing, you know you shoot shots and you imagine yourself making the last shot or free throw with no time on the clock and one of those moments came for me and I stepped up.  I even told the crowd to be quiet. (He had placed his index finger to his lips)   I had too!  I did it when I was practicing! (laughter)
AM: You did it on every one.  Were you a little worried if you missed one of them…

LD: You know everyone asks me that but honestly, I was not worried.  It was like the opportunity was here and I was going to take it.  It was like in practice, work effort in practice shooting free throws.  I had this opportunity I am not going to blow this.  It will benefit the team. We needed the win. We were coming off a rough game against Minnesota where we were down most of the game, a game we were not supposed to win (but did win on Dec 13th, at Minnesota).  Huggs and Jobey (Wright, Wyoming coach)… I think we were up there for four days.  We were all in the same hotel and Jobey and Huggins talked about how my boys are going to beat your boys and stuff.  We were up there in the mountains so it was tiresome…

MR: Did the altitude bother you?
LD: Yea, some of the guys went dead.  You know me, I can run for days.  So Huggins said all four days during practices, “Looks like ‘Zelle will have 30 or 40 because he is the only one who can run”.  And it kind of happened.  A lot of guys were worn out.  I was, but somehow kept going.  It ended up being everything we wanted.  Like Steve said, give the kids something to go for.

MR: I pulled an old quote from Zuke’s old web page. After that Wyoming game Huggins said “We got one guy who works real hard, LaZelle. The other guys that work a lot of the time and then some guys just do not want to understand.  I don’t know.  It is disheartening.  You look down the road at the schedule we got and we have overscheduled ourselves. (laughter)
SS: Is that Coach Huggins or what? (more laughter)
LD: Huggins whole objective is to get guys who will do it his way.  He’s going to get you to believe in his system and believe in what he has set before you to do and then get you to believe in yourself and the things you can do for the team.  His coaching style benefits the whole University, not just yourself, but the crowd, the city… your future.  He’s really trying to get guys to understand this but he’s going to do it.  The main thing is to begin to believe in yourself. 

MR: That seems to be part of the system, getting the player to believe in his own ability through practice, hard work and effort.
LD: Yea, that’s the first part of understanding, that you are going to do it.  And you can get it done.  That’s the first part of stepping out on faith, and confidence in yourself to say I am going to do it, no matter what the outcome.  You have to have the attitude.  Huggs was great for me, I had a rough father.  My dad was a Pastor and he was rough.  The first time I saw Huggs I thought, “Aw man, this guy is going to carry the torch again.”  My dad and them loved him of course.
SS: He was going to kick your ass if you get out of line.  I like that.  (laughter)
LD:  Yea, my parents loved Huggins.  My mom would call him and say, “Let us know if he gets out of line and we’ll help you”  (laughter) They were very disciplined.  Huggins carried that torch that my dad stood for.  You know, believe in yourself and do what you are going to do, but remember the other people.  And Huggs carried that torch for my dad.  I just received coach.  I kind of had an easy time.  He never really needed to get on me to do anything.  When I cam e in I came in to do the work and that makes the game a difference.

MR:  Does that make a difference today as you work with Drug Deterrent?
LD: Definitely, I think a lot of what I do with Drug Deterrent comes form my foundation.  With my dad being a pastor growing up, as a kid, the area we grew up in is highest in the state for AIDS and crack.  There were a lot of drugs in Cleveland and I saw the same things kids see today, nothing different, but I had the information.  It just wasn’t on your mind.  I did all the things I was supposed to do and enjoyed life.  And I tell kids today, I do not look back on any part of my childhood and think of mistakes.   When you are going for a good thing mistakes are not mistakes, they are results and you make the best of them.  That’s the thing you got to be focused on going for success.

That is what we are doing with Drug Deterrent today, getting kids to focus on the future, versus now.  If you are not a professional now, you will not be a professional later.  Getting kids to realize, you only live one time and that is your life.  That’s what we do at Drug Deterrent.  Try to emphasize to the kids.  Basketball gave me the picture to put my words from my thoughts out to give the kids a chance to understand what I am talking about.  Putting effort into completing the journey.  We always see the beginning and the end, but we never see what it takes in between. And that it is worth the effort.  To get the kids to accept the life they have now and to get past the problems that society has given everybody, not just them. 

We try to get kids to be open and be themselves. Everyone has their problems, but if you can’t change your circumstances you can change how you look at it and life gets better for yourself, if you want your future to be better than your past.

MR: It is really great for me, sitting here as a Bearcat fan, and I also imagine for Jon and Denise, we have 3 guys sitting here at this table who now work with kids and make a difference in kids’ lives.  With all the complaints about the program and graduation rate, here we have two grads and LaZelle you have an Associates right?
LD: Yea.
MR: The degree shouldn’t matter because you are making a difference in people’s lives today in a positive way and that’s what it is really all about.  It is nice to see that you have taken your education and put it back into the community in your own individual, special way.
SS; You know ‘Zelle touched on what is really, really is important.  We have to get these kids to learn how to behave. That is the main thing I stress when I deal with these kids, to be disciplined, have respect, and learn how to behave.  First impressions will last.  We take 175-200 kids from all over the city into our summer camp program and I reinforce to them how important it is for the kids to conduct themselves with respect for themselves and each other.  So many people have stereotypes when they think of the West End, when people see African-American kids they have certain perceptions.  I educate my kids on those perceptions and try to get them to learn to behave and carry themselves right and not worry about the stereotypes and do not give people the reason to have stereotypes.  I will have been there 10 years in August, but the thing that makes me feel so good is when you see success and you hear people tell you how great your kids are and how well-behaved and respectful they are.  I know I am getting old because I have kids at the Y who are in college!  It makes you feel good . . . and old. (laughter)

AM: Something you pointed out, Mike.  People focus on the graduation rate, but you can take the guys from the Huggins era from the time Steve Sanders played to now with Steve Logan.  Take all those players and match them up with Xavier or UK guys and the UC guys with or without a degree are doing just as good in the community.  A degree is important, but there are people doing special things who came from UC’s program.  You got us three right here who are probably making a bigger impact locally and on our country than most people.   I am not making an excuse for it, but I think that they are misinterpreting a lot of good people who go through the program. 

Its like if you go to Kroger’s and buy a dozen eggs.  You may have the best 11 eggs in the world, but if you have one that is rotten you will say ‘Kroger sells bad eggs’.  I feel that way with UC.  LaZelle is probably doing more for the community than most.  Many people have an agenda.  If you have one guy in your program that did something people will never forget, others want to see them all that way.  I remember going to Charlotte, we come in wearing all black and hear the chants “Here come the thugs” and “Huggs’ Thugs”.  That’s just perception.
MR: People will believe whatever they want to believe.
JB: And I don’t think we’ll ever be able to educate the Charlotte fans. (laughter)
MR:  I think when a former Bearcat gets nominated for sainthood or cures cancer. . .

JB:  What I think will be interesting with 3 juniors on track to graduate before next season even ends, the announcers will have to talk about these three seniors who have already graduated. All of the sudden they’ll say “wait a second, that can’t that be true?”
AM:  What bothers me is not the grad rate that the media brings up, but the image that the program is ‘bad’ or there are thugs in the program. It’s when they talk about there being ‘bad people’ in the program. That’s what upsets me.

JB: I wanted to bring up the ESPN show Outside The Lines . . . What would you say to ESPN in response to the implications that Cincinnati has grad rate issues ?
LD: For me to have a degree for what I’m doing is not necessary. Not having a degree is not holding me back from doing anything. I’m doing exactly what I want to do, just like when I was playing basketball. I think my life will continue to grow.  There are other ways to look at. I went to school for four years so to me I have a degree, whether I have a piece of paper hanging on the wall or not.  I’m taking my religious foundation, because I think it goes a long way. I’m using that foundation and the religious part of me on top of my education.  What I’m doing now is bigger than myself. Come and see one of our (Drug Deterrent) shows and see us deal with the kids and then talk about not having a degree.  Let us put our show on ESPN and let us show the country what we are doing for these kids.

AM: It seems like the media says that if Huggins isn’t graduating players, therefore Huggs is ‘using’ the players, which is not true. He tries to get people to do the right thing, graduate, but if they don’t that’s the players decision. What would be selfish of him would be to say “you have to graduate to make me look better and get the grad rates up” and he’s not done that. He says if you are successful in doing what you want to do, well then ‘congratulations’.

A few years ago, if I recall, North Carolina had close to a 100% graduation rate under Dean Smith. So what the media is implying is that Dean cares about his players and Huggins doesn’t. That’s not true. He’s got guys overseas that are making good money playing ball and he says to them “keep doing what you’re doing”.
LD: Huggs always stressed to us to be role model’s.  He said it on the day I met him and since then I’ve always thought of myself as a role model. And I also try to be that to my kids.

MR: That reminds me I wanted to ask you guys about your personal life, if you don’t mind. LaZelle, how many kids do you have?
LD: Three kids. Ten, nine and four...they keep me running. Just trying to enjoy them.  They are good, wife is good.
MR: …and Drug Deterrent is a family operation, isn’t it?
LD: My oldest brother owns it and is a psychotherapist and a vice president at a hospital in a children’s behavior department. They handle a lot of high risk kids.
MR: …and your mother is involved, right?
LD: that’s right; she works with us as well.

MR: What about you, Steve?
SS: I’m divorced, happily divorced (laughter) for about nine years. I have a daughter that is 15 that lives in Cleveland and my daughter from my marriage that is 10 years old lives here.

MR: Alex ?
AM: I’m pimpin’.  (lots of laughter !)
MR: Do you want me to put that in the interview?
AM: Yes, print that.  (laughter)
DB: Do you think you have a “perfect” desired woman in mind?
AM: Yes, but you can’t print that. (laughter)
LD: As long as she likes Jay-Z ! (laughter)
SS: See. I’m single now, so I’m pimpin’ too, but I try to stay in the background and whatever Alex can’t handle just falls into my lap.
(Editor’s note: these guys are crackin’ me up. . .)

AM: I just like having fun, every day.  You know my grandmother Manarah is about 96 years old. She can’t walk very well and she calls me every few days and says “I woke up today”. (laughter)  She says it jokingly, but serious at the same time.  She always tells me “I know you are only 25, but take this with you always:

“Enjoy every day; don’t worry about the past because it’s the past, and don’t worry about the future because it isn’t promised to you.”  

I share this thought with the kids that I coach. I tell them to focus on today and only our next game.  One thing I want to bring up is that Steve and I play in the Gabe Robinson Celebrity Charity basketball game each year at Walnut Hills High School. This is our second year playing in it and it’s a lot of fun. LaZelle, I know that you get this feeling like Steve and I when you’re on the court in front of a lot of people. You get this burst of energy and you play with good players.  Steve and I went at it last year. Steve came down and hit a three. I came down busted a three. We went back and forth and it as great. Steve’s team won last year.

The game is for Gabe Robinson. This is my second year coaching at Walnut and about four years ago during a game, Gabe collapsed and died. He was on his way to becoming the leading scorer in Walnut Hills history, hitting at about 17 ppg. After that, people wanted to find a way to celebrate his life and memory. They formed a scholarship fund and that’s where the money goes. Alumni, celebrities, radio station people, Bengal’s players, former Bearcats and Muskies (Sherwin Anderson, AD Jackson and Ickey Woods also played in the game)…they all show up to help raise money.  It’s too bad though because I’d rather there not be a game, but its one of those things that happen and good things will come from it. Its fun getting together and battling Steve.

MR: Alex, would you like to share your stats from the recent game, because I have a feeling you do.
AM: I was two assists from a triple-double.  I almost had an “Oscar”. Now I have the stat sheet at home if you want to see it, Steve.
SS: I don’t need to see it. (laughter)
AM: It’s a lot of fun. Good atmosphere, good cause, good people. . . . .
SS: What happened last year was I came out hot !  I hit about four straight bombs from deep and then Alex came down and hit 4 or 5 straight bombs and gave me this look like “You aren’t gonna do that in my gym !”   The crowd was like: Wow !
AM: I think both of our point totals were in the high twenties that day.
MR: LaZelle, sounds like you need to check out this game next year.
AM: No !  We can’t invite LaZelle. He’ll be shooting from outside the gym !

BearcatNews.com wishes to thank LaZelle, Steve and Alex for their time.  We had a lot of fun, heard some great stories and found out what great people come out of our favorite University. Jon, Denise and I thank you all.

 

On a personal note. . . in talking to friends afterwards, I found myself boasting about how great these three guys were as people. Not just former players. Not just top athletes who have had their various moments in the spotlight. They are human beings making a difference in the lives of today’s young people.

Mike Ryan
BearcatNews.com